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Its time!.... To accept things have to change

Its time we kiwi hunters started to realise that the way to protect our valuable herds, is to accept we have to contribute towards their management! If we dont, then we will end up with no Tahr, no Wapiti, no White tail.

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Problem is DOC are hell bent on culling every introduced species and whats left over including NZ native birds are poisoned off with 1080. NZ hunters fight is with DOC and voting the right political party is one way of setting the record straight again. NZ is blessed with having some of the best breeds of wild deer herds in the world. Wapiti, Fallow, White Tail, Sika, Rusa, Sambar, Reds, Tahr, most herds exist on DOC conservation reserves Etc and all are on the hit list thanks to the Greenies and the tree hugging Bird and Tweet brigade Alias Sage.

I hear you Horse…welcome aboard.
Sage has proven to be a blight on landscape…have you noticed that the green party have moved her way down the list so she just about 100% guaranteed to not get a seat next election…they must be gauging public feeling and trying to pull a swifty…get rid of her and put even more rabid model in her place.
ok so IF we decide we need to contribute …and decide to follow fish n game model…funny as its the modern version of old acclimatization societies that released these animals in first place.
A single licence covering everything for say $250 a year wouldnt be such a large lump out of budget…when buying game bird and fish licence anyway…
as to how to administer it,thats another can of worms.
do we want to go down the hole tag,rabbit hole??? dont see the need as big game arent in danger of being over hunted…
in same vein cant see a bag limit being needed which then begs the question WHAT would need to be administered???
some funds siphoned off for SELECTIVE CULLING with animals recovered as has been done with wapiti this season…why this hasnt been pushed for the thar is a question that needs to be asked…
the single biggest change that needs to happen is to open up all public land to drop off by helicopter .
as it stands they can do WARO or search n destroy in areas where they cant drop off foot hunters,thats just bizzare dumb logic.
MAYBE subsidize a parties flight cost if they can PROOVE after trip they culled X mount of target animals in targeted area…
EG fly in and trophy hunt for 4 days,then bomb up 10 nannies and take ears as proof…
or 3 hinds from other areas…
once upon a time pig snouts had bounty on them,so did possums,it worked.

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I recall being in a designated RHA …the greenstone and watching chopper doing waro…DOC couldnt/wouldnt follow up and prosecute…the fella who was flying that chopper is well known in area and Im pretty certain is one of the “dirty half dozen” who doing present thar slaughter.
the matey matey old boys brigade has too much power as it stands.
funny/sad how the preditor free brigade got shelved under this current lot of muppets…if Sage n co put as much energy into working on that goal as they are on present slaughter it still wouldnt happen but might actually do some good…why do I say it wont work…one word. GORSE.
it cant run away… is easy to spot bright yellow flower…can be killed relatively easily/cheaply from the air…doesnt breed fast if you keep on top of it…its a noxious weed yet look how much of it is on DOC administered land…

I think there are other reasons for having Tags. I see it as a good system this way.

The guy who’s heading in to kill nannies for the table is doing herd reduction/management and should not have to buy a tag. While we dont have over harvest, we do have a big number of young bulls shot each year which have not reached maturity. Id place individual tags on bulls so that hunters think more carefully about which ones they shoot and maybe, just maybe decide to shoot more females on a trip.
Yep what they have done with the wapiti meat is a massively positive step. We need more stuff like that! The key is we need funding to make our sport seen in a much more positive light across the public and political spectrum.
I just do not see many other options. if we continue to selfishly do as we are now, we will loose these herds for future generations as we and they get picked off one by one. Remember the Wapiti are in a national park as well and could very well face the exact same fate as the Tahr. The legislation is there.

yeah its a curly one…
you ever fishedin tekapo canals??? my personal belief is that in that fishery catch and release should be banned,unless fish over say 5lb…WTF you cry…
well its like this,during school holidays mum has had enough of the kids so dad takes them up there fishing 3-4 kids all hauling them in,and I mean hauling/winching then swung onto gravel and dad grabs them yanks out hook and tosses them back,meanwhile 2nd kid has another on deck gasping for life…on and on it goes…many of those fish die…the amount on gratings is shocking…if dad hd to keep the fish,and then deal with the fish…it would be “TWO each kids then we go home” the total kill would be less.
it would make the trophy trout fishos go home early…side effect…but would change the dynamic of fishery and slow up the slaughter…I can tolerate that with herring at wharf,but not trout.

now someone will come along and use wallaby and rabbits in same way…its ok to have open slather on them but not deer/thar…

if we can keep the tahr numbers at 10,000 OUTSIDE of private land…we might just have a trophy herd still,might still have meat animals about too…not as many but still there.
the fly in that ointment is who counts them??? and will all parties accept that count???

Great thread.

As a collective, we need to be seen, to be able to assist managing herd size. We need to harvest more and be seen doing it.

Convincing the powers to be that there is a very real value in our game animals is a challenge.

The idea that we could work collaboratively to help with herd management goes against Sages mindset. To her, that would suggest a loss of (Green Party) control and that it is the real issue here.

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Not just Sages, but there is a culture in DOC that has resisted that for a long time. We have been very well excluded by and large.
The one thing we can do ourselves, is get in behind the GAC and start to fund it ourselves.

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Yep. The herds are valuable to us in many ways and in turn they need a value put on them. We are seeing this already in the value of a bull tahr.

I have started listening to
The educated hunter Kiwi podcast.
A couple of podcasts with guys from Sika and a few other foundations .
Answers a few questions behind what they are trying to do and what we can do to help with herd management.
For myself it really made me think on what I am going to pull the trigger on hind vs Stag.

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that particular decision is easy for me…unless its a stag in velvet looking to have great potential…99% of the time whatever is seen is shot. I hunt for my freezer more than the wall.

Yep agree I hunt for the freezer but worth listening to Cam Speedys points on sika herd management if you havent already .
Some interesting facts for better sized deer in better condition and a real eye opener for real reason of
Take a doe and let it grow

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Yes even meat hunters should be considering that not all meat is equal. We have to work together and shooting a potential trophy, just because you want the meat may not be the best thing to do.

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as I said…stag in velvet that looks to have potential…and finger will come off trigger…hasnt happened often but it has happened…and was followed by a 18mths drought where I couldnt get onto a deer for love nor money… let a spiker go and again had drought for 6 mths afterwards…its like the cosmos is trying to tell me something LOL.
cocked it up on monday.deer jumped up out of ferns 2mtrs away from my dog…its possibly still running.
havent found one of these areas “overrun with deer” down in this part of the country yet… cant wait till I do…my family just loves eating venison.